Absurdity Revisited
A note: In my 15 years of visiting CP, there have not been many instances where I have ever felt that the park has been operated in a bad manner or unprofessionally. Unfortunately, though, this abruptly changed with yesterday's visit.
Although the TTR system has been debated to death, I simply felt the need to bring up a facet that may not have been discussed or just recently implemented. Below are some things to think about. Read on...
In my continuing boycott of any interaction whatsoever with the TTR system, my first ride on MF was slated for slightly after 4 o'clock, when supposedly the TTR system is stopped for the day. This was also a convenient time due to the fact that my friends had not yet ridden MF, and they wanted to get on in a relatively short time span so we could ride the other majors and come back for a night ride later in the evening.
To my behest, we arrived at the gate at approx. 4:15 where people were standing around dumbfounded. You could practically feel the silent anger of everyone around you, as I approached the queue attendant. I had no need to ask why the queue line was still closed, though, as she said loudly over her microphone that the queue would not be opening to the public until 5pm due to the fast pass system. Instead, they were letting people with any colored TTR to board.
Ironically, the sign right next to the entrance and everywhere else that there is one in the park blatantly state that TTR is in effect from opening until 4 PM everyday.
--I LOOKED AT MY WATCH...IT WAS 4:15 and the TTR folly should have been officially over for the day, but it wasn't due to some management decision.
Now I may seem brusque and arrogant, but this is outright false advertisement. No where does it state that the TTR system will ever be extended due to technical difficulties. Just as there is no guarantee of ride operation or rainchecks when you enter the park with your admission, the same should hold true for this system. As of 4, all TTR passes should expire.
PERIOD.
Now I know that some of you are saying that this is not fare to those who had a pass for a certain hour when the ride was down during technical difficulties, but once again, how reliable is this sytem in its first place. (Right now you can think of every negative comment about this sytem and simply palce it right here.)
As I walked away, I saw three CP policemen possibly heading toward the entrance to MF. I thought to myself in disgust about how such a great family park has single-handedly created such a violent disturbance that they now need croud control. Even if these cops were not headed for the entrance to MF, I'm almost certain that the TTR ride sytem has already brought about numerouse disturbances of people that would normally be MORE than happy simply waiting in line for this coaster.
-If a clinical trial of a new drug uncovers such negative results that it could possibly harm the people using it, would the FDA approve it for use anyhow? I think not.
AS we waited in line around five, I couldn't help noticing the holders of TTRs still mixing in with the general public line from their own queue area. Words that came to mind were elitist, fascist... If the consumers of these TTRs are elitists and fascists, then what does that make the management that continues to promote them?
Some people wait their entire lives to make religious pilgrimmages to the holy cities of Mecca or Jeruasalem. Every day prior to that experience can be though of as being devoted in some way to the preparation of that journey or even part of the journey itself. Sometimes during this journey there is suffering, but this is accepted as a sacrifice that must be made to reach this milestone, and from generation to generation, these beliefs are handed down.
To some people, waiting in line for hours to ride a new attraction is akin to a pilgrimmage. It's part of the journey in a tradition that adds to the suspense, and the anticipation that goes along with doing something new and finally reaping the fruits of the endeavor's apex. (Get those minds out of the gutter right now. :) )
-The pope doesn't hand out tickets that tell you when you can go to Jerusalem, nor should Cedar Point tell you when you can ride a rollercoaster. Committing either in my eyes is sacrilege.
R.I.P.T.T.R.
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-Dave Kochman
Pittsburgh
*** This post was edited by DaveTKoch on 7/26/2000. ***
Although the TTR system has been debated to death, I simply felt the need to bring up a facet that may not have been discussed or just recently implemented. Below are some things to think about. Read on...
In my continuing boycott of any interaction whatsoever with the TTR system, my first ride on MF was slated for slightly after 4 o'clock, when supposedly the TTR system is stopped for the day. This was also a convenient time due to the fact that my friends had not yet ridden MF, and they wanted to get on in a relatively short time span so we could ride the other majors and come back for a night ride later in the evening.
To my behest, we arrived at the gate at approx. 4:15 where people were standing around dumbfounded. You could practically feel the silent anger of everyone around you, as I approached the queue attendant. I had no need to ask why the queue line was still closed, though, as she said loudly over her microphone that the queue would not be opening to the public until 5pm due to the fast pass system. Instead, they were letting people with any colored TTR to board.
Ironically, the sign right next to the entrance and everywhere else that there is one in the park blatantly state that TTR is in effect from opening until 4 PM everyday.
--I LOOKED AT MY WATCH...IT WAS 4:15 and the TTR folly should have been officially over for the day, but it wasn't due to some management decision.
Now I may seem brusque and arrogant, but this is outright false advertisement. No where does it state that the TTR system will ever be extended due to technical difficulties. Just as there is no guarantee of ride operation or rainchecks when you enter the park with your admission, the same should hold true for this system. As of 4, all TTR passes should expire.
PERIOD.
Now I know that some of you are saying that this is not fare to those who had a pass for a certain hour when the ride was down during technical difficulties, but once again, how reliable is this sytem in its first place. (Right now you can think of every negative comment about this sytem and simply palce it right here.)
As I walked away, I saw three CP policemen possibly heading toward the entrance to MF. I thought to myself in disgust about how such a great family park has single-handedly created such a violent disturbance that they now need croud control. Even if these cops were not headed for the entrance to MF, I'm almost certain that the TTR ride sytem has already brought about numerouse disturbances of people that would normally be MORE than happy simply waiting in line for this coaster.
-If a clinical trial of a new drug uncovers such negative results that it could possibly harm the people using it, would the FDA approve it for use anyhow? I think not.
AS we waited in line around five, I couldn't help noticing the holders of TTRs still mixing in with the general public line from their own queue area. Words that came to mind were elitist, fascist... If the consumers of these TTRs are elitists and fascists, then what does that make the management that continues to promote them?
Some people wait their entire lives to make religious pilgrimmages to the holy cities of Mecca or Jeruasalem. Every day prior to that experience can be though of as being devoted in some way to the preparation of that journey or even part of the journey itself. Sometimes during this journey there is suffering, but this is accepted as a sacrifice that must be made to reach this milestone, and from generation to generation, these beliefs are handed down.
To some people, waiting in line for hours to ride a new attraction is akin to a pilgrimmage. It's part of the journey in a tradition that adds to the suspense, and the anticipation that goes along with doing something new and finally reaping the fruits of the endeavor's apex. (Get those minds out of the gutter right now. :) )
-The pope doesn't hand out tickets that tell you when you can go to Jerusalem, nor should Cedar Point tell you when you can ride a rollercoaster. Committing either in my eyes is sacrilege.
R.I.P.T.T.R.
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-Dave Kochman
Pittsburgh
*** This post was edited by DaveTKoch on 7/26/2000. ***
AMEN brother!!!! and since when does TTR start at opening?? doesn't it start when the queue fills up?? they keep changing the rules on us and that's what cheeses me off!! it's like a little kid trying to cheat at a game...NO!! you do it this way!! rrrggghhh!!!
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ride early, ride often!!!
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ride early, ride often!!!
Okay, so perhaps I should tell my story, a story which really does not directly effect me...
As some of you know, I often carry my computer with me in the park. It normally lives in a little purple bag attached to two belt loops by means of a pair of chain quick-links. Translation, it isn't going anywhere. But it is non-standard, so I figured that while I had it with me I'd check with the Millennium Force queue entrance attendant and find out if it is suitable or not. So I hopped around the rail towards the test seat.
Unfortunately, the person I needed to talk to was busy at that time. Why? Because of yet another problem brought on by the TTR scheme. It seems that this season, for the more popular rides, "special access" passengers are being subjected to a TTR-like scheme, where they visit the ride, and obtain a boarding time to come back and ride. It seems a rather odd way of doing it to me, but I can sort of understand the general idea. Anyway, one group (including one person in a wheelchair) had arrived at Millennium Force as their boarding time (12:10pm) had finally come up. Apparently they had already waited 90 minutes from the time they were given their boarding time.
Apparently, whoever gave them their boarding time forgot to give them a TTR ticket.
I don't know how the situation was finally resolved, but I think the person did, in fact, get to ride at that time. But it was a bureaucratic nightmare at the ride entrance because this person had already been forced to wait in a TTR-style holding pattern for an hour and a half, only to return to the ride to find out that because of TTR, the boarding time that had been issued earlier was no longer valid. Result? Four more pissed-off patrons, resulting in much yelling and screaming at ride attendants who shouldn't have to deal with this kind of nonsense.
Ride crew members should be operating the ride. The attendant at the ride entrance should be concerned with checking heights. Not bureaucracy and mob control. It's time for TTR to go away.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
As some of you know, I often carry my computer with me in the park. It normally lives in a little purple bag attached to two belt loops by means of a pair of chain quick-links. Translation, it isn't going anywhere. But it is non-standard, so I figured that while I had it with me I'd check with the Millennium Force queue entrance attendant and find out if it is suitable or not. So I hopped around the rail towards the test seat.
Unfortunately, the person I needed to talk to was busy at that time. Why? Because of yet another problem brought on by the TTR scheme. It seems that this season, for the more popular rides, "special access" passengers are being subjected to a TTR-like scheme, where they visit the ride, and obtain a boarding time to come back and ride. It seems a rather odd way of doing it to me, but I can sort of understand the general idea. Anyway, one group (including one person in a wheelchair) had arrived at Millennium Force as their boarding time (12:10pm) had finally come up. Apparently they had already waited 90 minutes from the time they were given their boarding time.
Apparently, whoever gave them their boarding time forgot to give them a TTR ticket.
I don't know how the situation was finally resolved, but I think the person did, in fact, get to ride at that time. But it was a bureaucratic nightmare at the ride entrance because this person had already been forced to wait in a TTR-style holding pattern for an hour and a half, only to return to the ride to find out that because of TTR, the boarding time that had been issued earlier was no longer valid. Result? Four more pissed-off patrons, resulting in much yelling and screaming at ride attendants who shouldn't have to deal with this kind of nonsense.
Ride crew members should be operating the ride. The attendant at the ride entrance should be concerned with checking heights. Not bureaucracy and mob control. It's time for TTR to go away.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
Right on, Dave. I've never had a problem with the concept, but the implementation hasn't had much positive impact on anything.
So far, wait times WITH a TTR have been around 45 minutes. Without, before and after, they've been twice that at the most with three-train operation. A 90 minute wait for a ride of that magnitude doesn't seem that bad to me. God knows we did it on rides like Demon Drop, Avalanche Run, Magnum and even Iron Dragon.
People do have a realistic expectation that they will wait for a signature ride on a busy day, there's no question about that. They might not enjoy it, but they do expect it. The reduction in wait time with TTR has been mostly negligable if you ask me. It has really only succeeded in creating anger and hostility among guests, as DaveTKoch's story is one of many that end the same way.
Waiting in line isn't the most fun thing in the world, but dealing with the bureaucracy is even less fun.
I haven't been on a Cedar Point coaster now in almost three weeks, and I haven't managed to get any closer to my goal of a hundred laps on the Force. Why? I don't even bother going to the park because I have to plan for this thing and meet certain timelines. Sorry, my weekends are too precious for that. See you on bonus weekends...
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 35
So far, wait times WITH a TTR have been around 45 minutes. Without, before and after, they've been twice that at the most with three-train operation. A 90 minute wait for a ride of that magnitude doesn't seem that bad to me. God knows we did it on rides like Demon Drop, Avalanche Run, Magnum and even Iron Dragon.
People do have a realistic expectation that they will wait for a signature ride on a busy day, there's no question about that. They might not enjoy it, but they do expect it. The reduction in wait time with TTR has been mostly negligable if you ask me. It has really only succeeded in creating anger and hostility among guests, as DaveTKoch's story is one of many that end the same way.
Waiting in line isn't the most fun thing in the world, but dealing with the bureaucracy is even less fun.
I haven't been on a Cedar Point coaster now in almost three weeks, and I haven't managed to get any closer to my goal of a hundred laps on the Force. Why? I don't even bother going to the park because I have to plan for this thing and meet certain timelines. Sorry, my weekends are too precious for that. See you on bonus weekends...
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 35
It specifically states that if the ride is down due to technical problems,you MAY lose your TTR.
It doesnt state they will extend the hours.That simply isnt fair.They should stick with what they post or change it AHEAD of time.
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Gillian
It doesnt state they will extend the hours.That simply isnt fair.They should stick with what they post or change it AHEAD of time.
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Gillian
Jeff are you saying that you are not going to the park for the rest of the year? Im not saying I have a problem with that, and I'm accually quite glad some people are not going to take this nonsence any longer. Now to my story...
On the 24th we got to the park at about 12:00 so we figured they were all out of TTR tickets so we decided to walk up to the line at about 3:15 and wait 45 minutes untill the the line opened up to the public. When we reached the line there were already about 50 people wanting to get in line, but we couldn't because according to the attendent the ride was broken down for a few hours so the line wouldn't be opening to the public untill 6:00. Thats crazy if it says the line is going to open at 4 open it at 4. Its not like the TTR folks would not be able to ride, they could just wait like the rest of us. I think its time for Cedar Point to relook the TTR system!
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-Chris
Against Ticket To Ride since day one!
On the 24th we got to the park at about 12:00 so we figured they were all out of TTR tickets so we decided to walk up to the line at about 3:15 and wait 45 minutes untill the the line opened up to the public. When we reached the line there were already about 50 people wanting to get in line, but we couldn't because according to the attendent the ride was broken down for a few hours so the line wouldn't be opening to the public untill 6:00. Thats crazy if it says the line is going to open at 4 open it at 4. Its not like the TTR folks would not be able to ride, they could just wait like the rest of us. I think its time for Cedar Point to relook the TTR system!
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-Chris
Against Ticket To Ride since day one!
i would guess jeffs made the peak season weekend trips one too many times in the past,last summer me and another season pass holding friend went on an early august weekend, and the crowd that was there was so bad we actually ended up headin down toll road and checking out kennywood.which wasnt a bad idea till we tried to find a hotel in pitt area,nothing like checking in at 4 am to a 90 dollar room(it was worth it though for a first time kennywood trip)so i too havent been to the point since the 5th of july and probably wont return till near labor day or bonus weekends.
I don't mind going during peak summer, even on the weekends. Sure the lines are longer, but there's plenty to do. We still manage to have a good time.
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Cedar Point Virtual Midway
http://www.schmidty.com/cpvirtual
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Cedar Point Virtual Midway
http://www.schmidty.com/cpvirtual
"..more pissed-off patrons, resulting in much yelling and screaming at ride attendants who shouldn't have to deal with this kind of nonsense."
Amen. That's how bureaucracy works. Who instituted TTR? Management. Who has to work it? The underlings. Who gets yelled at all day? The little people, while management sits behind a desk, thinking up more red-tape ideas.
I thought amusement parks were supposed to be fun and somewhat simple. I guess I'll have to sacrifice safety for convenience and utilize my SF season pass more often.
Amen. That's how bureaucracy works. Who instituted TTR? Management. Who has to work it? The underlings. Who gets yelled at all day? The little people, while management sits behind a desk, thinking up more red-tape ideas.
I thought amusement parks were supposed to be fun and somewhat simple. I guess I'll have to sacrifice safety for convenience and utilize my SF season pass more often.
I've only had to deal with TTR once so far, but it certainly didn't win me over. In 20 minutes we'd gotten 2 TTR timeslots. Couldn't complain about that.
Yet we still waited an hour in the "real" line WITH the TTR! Big Savings, huh?
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--Greg
http://www.pobox.com/~gregleg/
MF count: 7
Yet we still waited an hour in the "real" line WITH the TTR! Big Savings, huh?
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--Greg
http://www.pobox.com/~gregleg/
MF count: 7
I'm not boycotting the park or anything, I just haven't had time. (In case you're wondering, I've been working to build this forum software in to a stand-alone product that you can buy. It's almost ready, and should be testing on CoasterBuzz soon.)
I will probably visit the park Saturday or Sunday to shoot a little video and photographs, since I've been meaning to do it all season. I was a bit too busy riding the first part of the season and spent entirely too much time in the park. Now I have to try out my new Bogen for night photography...
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 35
I will probably visit the park Saturday or Sunday to shoot a little video and photographs, since I've been meaning to do it all season. I was a bit too busy riding the first part of the season and spent entirely too much time in the park. Now I have to try out my new Bogen for night photography...
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 35
Try out your new Bogen.....???
The only Bogen photographic products I know of (which are admittedly very useful for night photography) don't go by the Bogen name anymore, but by the name Manfrotto...
Personally I think Bogen should receive a nomination for Best Supporting Role in a College Video Production...!
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
*** This post was edited by RideMan on 7/28/2000. ***
The only Bogen photographic products I know of (which are admittedly very useful for night photography) don't go by the Bogen name anymore, but by the name Manfrotto...
Personally I think Bogen should receive a nomination for Best Supporting Role in a College Video Production...!
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
*** This post was edited by RideMan on 7/28/2000. ***
I miss just waiting in line. I have never waited in a line over two hours on anything at the Point. And if the lines do get long then oh well. Isn't that what why the park bases itself as a resort? I thought they wanted people not to be able to fit it all in one day. That's why they built four hotels, a campground, and a Marina.
First the boarding pass of last season now this TTR. Me? I still like the idea of ride time signs. Sigh, oh well maybe next season.
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Dispatch Master, This is Transport one! I'm losing control, I'm losing control!
First the boarding pass of last season now this TTR. Me? I still like the idea of ride time signs. Sigh, oh well maybe next season.
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Dispatch Master, This is Transport one! I'm losing control, I'm losing control!
Sorry Dave, but I've been fighting their insistance to use the name all along, despite the little tag tied to the thing that says they're the same thing. Besides, as long as they keep engraving "Bogen" larger than "Manfrotto" on the sticks, I'll stick to Bogen!
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 35
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 35
(Since he's at work, Dave goes and checks the closet...)
Well, this old 3021 is definately a "bogen" (by Manfrotto). The newer 3033 here is a "bogen Manfrotto" as you describe, where "bogen" is a larger type than "Manfrotto". But I am guessing that those sticks are 'old stock' because the 3126 head is a "Manfrotto" which notes in itty bitty letters, "distributed by bogen".
(the lack of capitalization is Manfrotto's fault, not mine).
But then, if I can refuse to refer to Geauga Lake by its official new name, I suppose I can forgive Jeff for attributing his sticks to Bogen. :)
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
(Talk about off-topic!! Now, I wonder how many people here are totally lost and have no idea what we're talking about...)
Well, this old 3021 is definately a "bogen" (by Manfrotto). The newer 3033 here is a "bogen Manfrotto" as you describe, where "bogen" is a larger type than "Manfrotto". But I am guessing that those sticks are 'old stock' because the 3126 head is a "Manfrotto" which notes in itty bitty letters, "distributed by bogen".
(the lack of capitalization is Manfrotto's fault, not mine).
But then, if I can refuse to refer to Geauga Lake by its official new name, I suppose I can forgive Jeff for attributing his sticks to Bogen. :)
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
(Talk about off-topic!! Now, I wonder how many people here are totally lost and have no idea what we're talking about...)
My new sticks are 3033's, with the same engraving. The 3160 head looks like your 3126. As long as B&H and the other catalogs keep calling it Bogen, so will I! I'm still not sure why they would de-emphasize such a well-recognized brand like that. It would be like Ford calling themselves Daewoo or something!
For those who are really lost (and to generate "who cares" comments across the globe), we're talking about Italian-made tripods.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 35
For those who are really lost (and to generate "who cares" comments across the globe), we're talking about Italian-made tripods.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 35
Jeff or anyone else when you say that waits for MF are 45 minutes even with T.T.R. , is that on a weekend or on a tuesday wednesday or thursday. If thats on weekends, then what is the average wait for MF with T.T.R. on a tuesday wednesday or thursday. thanks
Off-topic question.
"In case you're wondering, I've been working to build this forum software in to a stand-alone product that you can buy." - Jeff
How much? Ball-park, if that's all you've got so far.
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WHOO!
"In case you're wondering, I've been working to build this forum software in to a stand-alone product that you can buy." - Jeff
How much? Ball-park, if that's all you've got so far.
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WHOO!
"I thought amusement parks were supposed to be fun and somewhat simple. I guess I'll have to sacrifice safety for convenience and utilize my SF season pass more often."
Uh, umm, you, know, I don't think I can even reply to that. How 'bout you, Gemini?
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Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill.
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