A threat no more?

I know this isnt the biggest CP related news, but I just thought that it is some interesting information to know.

Mark Shapiro, the new chief executive, said in a report that Six Flags is to no longer rely on adding expensive thrill rides to juice up attendance saying "They never pay for themselves." While visiting SFOG he took a look into the $20,000,000, 200ft Goliath and said flatly, "You won't see any more Goliaths."

So does this mean that we (Cedar Point as well as Cedar Fair) can count SF out of the competition for the biggest or most coasters?

That is a possibility. IMO, it seems like Six Flags, is going downhill. Lately, I've been hearing bad things such as ticket and parking prices increasing and now this "No more Goliaths" and "No more Mr. Six". In years to come, they may not have as good of chances as winning any Golden Ticket Awards...

You're right about the prices. SFMM is now $59.99 to get in and has a $15 parking toll!!

If you know Mark Shapiro, and the many different things he has done to succeed (and he has succeeded), one of his creedos is that...when you think about a "team", not one "thing" should stand out by itself...hence, no more building the "biggest baddest fastest tallest", etc, as that would stick out. IMO, he will be more about improving the overall quality of the parks.

Ya, his main idea is to make the parks more family friendly. If you ask me he it trying to make the parks like disney parks. He wants parades during the day and fireworks at night, sounds a lot like Disney to me. He also said that he wants theming to be a main factor in all of the parks, such as more Looney Tunes. He also says that the parks are places for teens to hang out and it just isn't fun for families any more. Finally he said that new the rides will now be kiddie rides and that is all that you should expect for a couple of years. I think Six Flags is going to crash and burn. Thank You Sharpio :) and to answer TTD 120 mph's question I definatley think SF is no longer competition.

TTD 120mph said:
You're right about the prices. SFMM is now $59.99 to get in and has a $15 parking toll!!

It's almost like SFI wants to give people a reason not to come with those prices.

Thats what most people have been saying.:)

You pay parking, enterance and that's it, you're broke!

*** Edited 1/28/2006 7:07:55 PM UTC by TTD 120mph***

Why would Six Flags "crash and burn?"

Some people want the family park without the insane price, the annoying teenagers, the smokers wandering around, and huge rides.

The rides they have are not going anywhere (yet.. if at all), and changing operations and goals in the chain is not going to mean certain doom for Six Flags.

Compare Six Flags prices to Disney and Universal. Notice the hojillion dollars you will be saving by going to one of their numerous locations, compare the thrill rides to Universal and the theming / atmosphere of Disney and then pile the kids into the car not the airplane. Think of it as Earl's Disney Land or Generic Brand Disney.

There are different types of parks in the Industry. Shapiro is seeing a market in the day's of enourmous fuel prices and financial hardship. Not everyone can afford the pilgramage to Disney and Universal.

Look at Paramount (to be renamed at a later date) and how well they have done with their theming. Now add more family oriented rides and you have something that just might work..

Does this mean a decrease in the number of Superman named rides finaly?

Six flags is just not as nice as Cedar Fair. I mean to get in to CP for 40 bucks and have alot nicer enviorment and better coasters is clearly better than 60 bucks, and crappy rides.

TTD 120mph said:
So does this mean that we (Cedar Point as well as Cedar Fair) can count SF out of the competition for the biggest or most coasters?

Cedar Point doesn't compete with Six Flags. Any of them.

hey no matter what those companies do Cedar point would really have to do a big nose dive to lose business to any one of them.. maybe if they were alot closer...but there's too much space between them.. It's not like were talking about Walmart competing with Target

I see what you mean Jeff. Would race for the biggest or most coasters be a better term to use instead of competition?

If there were such a race, sure. But "build it and they will come" is not the strategy they're banking on.

So what you're saying is that, in CP's and SF's mind, there's no real competitive reason for building coasters?
ex: "OMG look what they just built! Let's build one that's better!"

*** Edited 1/30/2006 2:48:06 AM UTC by TTD 120mph***

I think it's less about the competition between CP and SF, and more about the fact that CP has built itself as "America's Roller Coast" and it's the big coasters such as Magnum, Millennium Force, and to a lesser extent Top Thrill Dragster that have pulled guests from all over the country and even the world to Cedar Point. Cedar Point has built itself up to the point where it is no longer a regional amusement park, but rather a "destination superpark".

By building giant coasters like Millennium Force, Magnum, and Top Thrill Dragster, Cedar Point gets a ton of free advertising around the world from the shows that air on National Geographic, Travel Channel, Discovery Channel, and more. These shows air over and over for several years and end up being one giant infomercial for Cedar Point selling directly to anyone who likes roller coasters.

When these record-breaking coasters open, they also draw a huge amount of national and international press. This lets people from outside of the market see the park and many times they might research it and decide its a good 3-4 day vacation destination with the beach, Soak City, Castaway Bay, and Cedar Point.

Ask 50 random people from the general population (not coaster enthusiasts) from New Jersey if they have heard of Cedar Point. Then go to Ohio and ask 50 random people if they have heard of Great Adventure or Magic Mountain. I bet you will find that a lot more people from New Jersey have heard of Cedar Point than people from Ohio have heard of Great Adventure or Magic Mountain. This just shows how the investment in staying #1 in terms of most coasters, largest coasters, etc. is also a great long-term marketing tool.

Cedar Point has built itself into a league all its own as far as traditional non-themed amusement park that has the ability to draw families from all over the nation and even the world to the park as a vacation destination. The only parks that I can think of that can top that kind of national draw are the themed parks in Florida and California, and maybe to a lesser extent Busch Gardens Williamsburg, which is helped significantly by the other historical attractions which surround it.

That's a very good view point of things.

One thing the new CEO of Six Flags has said that really got me thinking was that he said roller coaster investments only pay out for one year, while family rides pay out for much longer. Looking at Cedar Point I can totally see how that is true. Rides like MF and TTD can be advertised for 2 years, but more normal size rides like WT and maXair can't be draw everyones attention longer than a year. Now that brings me to an addition such as Camp Snoopy. It was built in 1999 but I guarantee that CP could boost up their marketing toward that area and they will get more people to the park, 7 years after they built it.

TTD 120mph,
That is true. The "race" only exists among enthusiasts and the fanboys of every park.
Great Adventure didn't build KK because it was CP who had the tallest, they built it because an -est coaster is great for the press. Especially when you can get Discovery to do a Modern Marvels on just your park and coaster.

RidePhoto101 said:

Ask 50 random people from the general population (not coaster enthusiasts) from New Jersey if they have heard of Cedar Point. Then go to Ohio and ask 50 random people if they have heard of Great Adventure or Magic Mountain. I bet you will find that a lot more people from New Jersey have heard of Cedar Point than people from Ohio have heard of Great Adventure or Magic Mountain. This just shows how the investment in staying #1 in terms of most coasters, largest coasters, etc. is also a great long-term marketing tool.

The thing about that is the Six Flags name is a lot better known than the Cedar Fair name. All of the Six Flags park have the name Six Flags in them where as the majority of people don't even know that Cedar Fair owns Cedar Point and other parks. The Six Flags chain spreads out all around the world so when people hear of Six Flags Magic Mountain and/or Six Flags Great Adventure the name of the chain is spread around as well.

I hate to admit it but that National Geographic show was pretty cool. :)

And what you said makes perfect sense John. I guess, in my eyes, there's a competition.....seeing that I am a CP fanboy.:P

And is the whole "coasters not paying for themselves" just referring to attendance and not so much (but still in a sense) the financial aspects of the ride?

Man, it's sad to know that such cool coasters only have one maybe two solid years of publicity.
But in my mind, I don't believe that it hurts their popularity. Stuff like downtime (TTD) and accidents are what hurt the ride the most....both financially and popularity wise.
But Dragsters still my favorite...even if it doesn't get much publicity.:) *** Edited 1/30/2006 9:14:48 PM UTC by TTD 120mph***

What RidePhoto101 said. CP builds rides to keep people interested in the park, not so they can say "SF suX0rz!!!11"