2020 Season Pass

Tuesday, April 14, 2020 3:41 PM

WolfBobs said:

^Thanks, KI posted the same announcement. So as common sense and logic would prevail it will be chain wide.

Excellent customer service in my opinion, I am made whole. Considering the surreal times we are living in.

Made whole, you lost nothing. This is however a financial bomb for CF in 2020 & 2021 by doing this irregardless when parks open in 2020. CF will have to cut expenses significantly & it will come from Capex for 2021 & 2022. All those cheap $99 Gold passes besides getting fall 2019, get whatever occurs in 2020 & full year 2021. CF is taking a bath on passes & dining products.

Last edited by CED23, Tuesday, April 14, 2020 3:42 PM
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Tuesday, April 14, 2020 4:01 PM

Well, it's official according to Jason...

  • 2020 Season Passes and purchased 2020 Season Pass Add-On Products (if applicable) will be valid for the remainder of 2020 when our park is able to open.
  • Additionally, we will extend the validity dates for current 2020 Season Passes* (as well as purchased 2020 Season Pass Add-On Products) through the 2021 Season according to pass type.

Just received an e-mail from the park -

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Tuesday, April 14, 2020 4:21 PM
Cargo Shorts's avatar

Just wanted to point out Canada’s Wonderland has not updated their website with a new statement. (as of this post)

However the wording on the other park’s websites makes it clear all PP will be extended without the Knott’s hedged wording of “purchased through Knotts”

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Tuesday, April 14, 2020 6:06 PM

Everybody has been "Made Whole"

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Tuesday, April 14, 2020 7:29 PM

Just Coasting said:

Everybody has been "Made Whole"

Nonsense..you lost nothing. The entitlement is breath taking but expected in this society.

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Wednesday, April 15, 2020 12:35 AM
vwhoward's avatar

Gold Pass holders really made out


Joe
Eat 'em up, Tigers, eat 'em up!

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Wednesday, April 15, 2020 1:01 AM
Chuck Wagon's avatar

How so? No additional benefits have been gained until the park actually opens.


-- Chuck Wagon --
aka Pagoda Gift Shop

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Wednesday, April 15, 2020 7:59 AM

CED23 said:

WolfBobs said:

^Thanks, KI posted the same announcement. So as common sense and logic would prevail it will be chain wide.

Excellent customer service in my opinion, I am made whole. Considering the surreal times we are living in.

Made whole, you lost nothing. This is however a financial bomb for CF in 2020 & 2021 by doing this irregardless when parks open in 2020. CF will have to cut expenses significantly & it will come from Capex for 2021 & 2022. All those cheap $99 Gold passes besides getting fall 2019, get whatever occurs in 2020 & full year 2021. CF is taking a bath on passes & dining products.

Oh don't get me wrong, I fully expect no significant capex for 2021, possibly 2022 and even 2023 depending on how this goes and the park. New paint, remodeled gift shops or food stands, new festivals? Maybe. More likely than new rides or attractions. But losing a whole year is going to be hard on any amusement park to significant spend. There may be some surprises for 2021 as contracts may have been sign and payments started, but 2022 and 2023 may be very quiet years as companies try and recover from this year.

Depending on what kind of recession this causes it may even be 5-10 years before amusement companies start to really pull themselves out of this. It'll be an interesting couple years. Again, I will gladly be wrong and take a shortened 2020 season and quicker recovery, I just don't really see it.

Unrelated to CP as I think Point will survive, depending on how this goes and for how long there may be some parks that don't survive. SF was already in some trouble, they could close or try to sell some smaller parks, smaller independent parks may not be able to tread water long enough to reopen. The whole industry may look significantly different in 18-24 months.

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Wednesday, April 15, 2020 9:51 AM

Nonsense..you lost nothing. The entitlement is breath taking but expected in this society.

Yes we did, I'm a Platinum Pass Holder with dining plan, drink plan, and funpix. If it wasn't for the Cornavirus, I would have been at Carowinds 2X, Kings Dominion 2X, and Kings Island 2X.

So yes I did lose something.

Did I expect Cedar Fair to extend all season passes until 2021, No.

They did, that should tell you something, 2020 is going to be a bust for their parks due to the Cornavirus.

It's not their fault, but they still have to provide you the service that you purchased.

So they went above and beyond and made everyone "Super Whole"

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Wednesday, April 15, 2020 11:33 AM

Just Coasting said:



Nonsense..you lost nothing. The entitlement is breath taking but expected in this society.

Yes we did, I'm a Platinum Pass Holder with dining plan, drink plan, and funpix. If it wasn't for the Cornavirus, I would have been at Carowinds 2X, Kings Dominion 2X, and Kings Island 2X.

So yes I did lose something.

Did I expect Cedar Fair to extend all season passes until 2021, No.

They did, that should tell you something, 2020 is going to be a bust for their parks due to the Cornavirus.

It's not their fault, but they still have to provide you the service that you purchased.

So they went above and beyond and made everyone "Super Whole"

The level of entitlement & whining is again breathtaking, You lost nothing, read your agreement that comes with a pass and actually know laws. No theme park chain legally had to do anything. They are under no obligation to your theoretical plans. They are under no requirement to a number of operating days you think you deserve..ie..if they open July, August, etc,,, People like you, are why parks have & are doing less for enthusiasts. FYI, I know execs in different chains, they literally despise the enthusiasts type you represent, full of entitlement. AGAIN YOU LOST NOTHING! The people whining & crying about "being whole" are the types that are likely spending money they don't really have or can't really afford, on their park hobby. You're as bad as the dingleberries filing a class action b/c SF charged them 8.95 in the end of March, suspended all payments later. The people pinching pennies whining about being made whole.

Last edited by CED23, Wednesday, April 15, 2020 11:40 AM
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Wednesday, April 15, 2020 11:49 AM
Jeff's avatar

Give it a rest. Consumers getting what they believe they paid for is not entitlement.


Jeff - Advocate of Great Great Tunnels™ - Co-Publisher - PointBuzz - CoasterBuzz - Blog - Music

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Wednesday, April 15, 2020 11:52 AM
Thabto's avatar

So, in the event that the parks can't open this year, those that spent $1000+ for passes, dining, drinks, etc for their families should just be out that amount of money? This will probably make alot of people think twice about buying their passes early to save some money. I think this move was more to not change spending habits since they rely on off-season pass and ticket sales for the following year to keep a bit of a cash flow going when most of the parks are closed. Suspending payments was probably all that really needed to be done so far, and then an extension into 2021 after determining how much of 2020 was lost.

Last edited by Thabto, Wednesday, April 15, 2020 11:56 AM

Brian
Valravn Rides: 24| Steel Vengeance Rides: 26| Dragster Rollbacks: 1
2021 Visits: 3

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Wednesday, April 15, 2020 12:19 PM

WolfBobs said:

Oh don't get me wrong, I fully expect no significant capex for 2021, possibly 2022 and even 2023 depending on how this goes and the park. New paint, remodeled gift shops or food stands, new festivals? Maybe. More likely than new rides or attractions. But losing a whole year is going to be hard on any amusement park to significant spend. There may be some surprises for 2021 as contracts may have been sign and payments started, but 2022 and 2023 may be very quiet years as companies try and recover from this year.

Depending on what kind of recession this causes it may even be 5-10 years before amusement companies start to really pull themselves out of this. It'll be an interesting couple years. Again, I will gladly be wrong and take a shortened 2020 season and quicker recovery, I just don't really see it.

Unrelated to CP as I think Point will survive, depending on how this goes and for how long there may be some parks that don't survive. SF was already in some trouble, they could close or try to sell some smaller parks, smaller independent parks may not be able to tread water long enough to reopen. The whole industry may look significantly different in 18-24 months.

2021 Core Capex will be cut likely severely. Core stuff like maintenance has to occur, but rides/attractions portion will be little. Starting in 2021 CF already was going to scale back total Capex. 2020 they were finishing their major supplemental projects resorts, hotels, BGSU campus,dorms, etc,, Castaways, Knotts hotel, Sawmill Creek, Schlitterbahn lodging, and Wonderland hotel were all in progress. These things already started must really be finished. They would worse off with partially complete renovations not being at full utility of their lodging. No major new stuff was planned come 2021 after Wonderland hotel. 2022 Core Capex will be cut also. They are having to spread revenue claimed from 2020 passes over 2021. Would not be shocked if Core Capex is cut 40% or 50% & most of what is spent is the mandatory stuff of maintenance & in park high priority infrastructure .

SF is trying to do a lot to get liquidity. Besides last week announcement on the increased revolver, today they are doing a private offering of 665M secured note thru their subsidiary Six Flags Theme Park Inc. Chains don't normally do secured note b/c they are putting up assets directly as collateral. This 665M will partially pay off their 2024 maturing note & pay costs while closed. They also struck a deal to change the terms of their debt covenants, with this new note. That means they were surely going to violate their covenants thus had to do this secured note. Chains don't like secured notes, it's a last resort.

The small & indy parks are at major risk. The thing is none of the big chains are in a position to buy them if they fail. CF was cited by analysts to be best positioned of the chains for a post Covid recovery, but they aren't going to want to take on more debt.

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Wednesday, April 15, 2020 12:36 PM

Thabto said:

So, in the event that the parks can't open this year, those that spent $1000+ for passes, dining, drinks, etc for their families should just be out that amount of money? This will probably make alot of people think twice about buying their passes early to save some money. I think this move was more to not change spending habits since they rely on off-season pass and ticket sales for the following year to keep a bit of a cash flow going when most of the parks are closed. Suspending payments was probably all that really needed to be done so far, and then an extension into 2021 after determining how much of 2020 was lost.

1)Anything the parks do or don't do regarding lost time is up to them. They are under no legal obligation. The talk of being "made whole "by others is obnoxious entitlement.

2)The benefit of buying passes early is less cost. Passes are $30 more now than in the fall. Buying early also got a FL+ and or fall free.

3)Passes bought in the off season or season before are deferred revenue, they are not claimed or utilized yet. There is a about a long explanation on how CF claims season product revenue based essentially on expected number of uses, operating days in quarter, etc..

4)Suspending payments was likely all that was needed & then when park opens they could have given proportional discounts for 2021 to lost time. They went overkill especially with passes & add ons bought after the announcement the other day also being extended till 2021. The only way this works not as a disaster is if they expect no to open till August, then it's almost like the buy next season & get fall free deal in the past, but even that doesn't include add ons for upcoming season.

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Wednesday, April 15, 2020 12:39 PM

Whatever was planned for 2021 is still going to go forward. We know they operate off a five year plan where the first year is locked in, the second is nearly final, and anything beyond is flexible. If any parks are getting major attractions next season those will still happen as they’ve likely been paid for. Beyond that, sure they could change or postpone things but they’re not going to have knee jerk reactions for major cap ex projects, there are better ways of managing expenses.

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Wednesday, April 15, 2020 12:40 PM

I legitimately do not understand why CED23 is so fired up here. Just Coasting commented that he basically felt like he "lost" some of the value of his passes and purchases if the operating calendar was shorter (if I interpreted the posts properly) and that's just common sense. However, without complaining, he noted that his passes and purchases were extended through the 2021 season, and gave Cedar Fair props for that, and showed he was grateful. Where in this situation is he being "whiny" and "entitled?" I think it's awesome what CF is doing with the passes, I know it's gotta be a big pain for them, but big ups.

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Wednesday, April 15, 2020 1:15 PM

mgou58 said:

Whatever was planned for 2021 is still going to go forward. We know they operate off a five year plan where the first year is locked in, the second is nearly final, and anything beyond is flexible. If any parks are getting major attractions next season those will still happen as they’ve likely been paid for. Beyond that, sure they could change or postpone things but they’re not going to have knee jerk reactions for major cap ex projects, there are better ways of managing expenses.

The notion 2021 Capex is going on as planned is farcical. No things are not "been paid for". Initial down payments may have occurred to hold production slots & manufactures chosen, subcontractors, things are not pre paid in full. They can be eliminated or delayed easily. Capex for Core is actually funded thru net income, they put stuff on the revolver & the pay it as income is claimed CF will severely lower net income. They are having 25 to 30M or more monthly costs & no revenue. They are going to be living off the 172M in cash they had at end of Q4 & the 275M revolver till they open. They also have to watch their debt covenant leverage ratios or have them altered legally or suspended by debt holders. 2021 Capex will be cut, they aren't going to spend at the level the last 3 years. CF doesn't want to violate the covenants or get overly leveraged so they can't get lenders or lenders at worse rates or have to go to secured notes.

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Wednesday, April 15, 2020 1:19 PM
operative_me's avatar

CED23 is doing something remarkable: he is making me agree with Just Coasting.

There is literally NO ONE on this thread acting entitled. If anything they have expressed appreciation for the park extending passes through 2021 and heck they are doing it early!

I'm not trying to trash you man but you are really adamant about pushing across a point that makes little or no sense.


-Craig
Lifetime Laps on Woodstock Express: 0

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Wednesday, April 15, 2020 1:27 PM

operative_me said:

CED23 is doing something remarkable: he is making me agree with Just Coasting.

There is literally NO ONE on this thread acting entitled. If anything they have expressed appreciation for the park extending passes through 2021 and heck they are doing it early!

I'm not trying to trash you man but you are really adamant about pushing across a point that makes little or no sense.

Talking about being "made whole "is entitlement, when you lost nothing. It's the sense your obliged to be given something by the park, when you're not. FYI, talking about "made whole" is not a statement of appreciation. Anybody claiming so, has inherent entitlement too. The poster whining lost nothing to be "made whole." Already explained , but like I said entitlement, this is why park execs hate enthusiasts & continue to do less & less over the years.

Last edited by CED23, Wednesday, April 15, 2020 1:31 PM
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Wednesday, April 15, 2020 1:31 PM

Maybe you do not understand their use of the "made whole" reference?

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