2013 Fast Lane and Fast Lane Plus

MaverickLaunch said:

Your argument makes absolutely no sense.

So if what you're saying is true, if I usually fly on low-volume days (which I do) and wait in little or no security line, I must be on some really un-safe flights.

You've completely misunderstood me. I certainly don't believe that.

^ But your argument still doesn't make any sense. There are two components of the TSA checkpoint:

1. The time you wait in line before getting to the scanners
2. The time spent placing your luggage on the conveyers and stepping through the scanners

The only thing that's been mentioned in this thread (aside from the TSA Pre Check) is being able to minimize the amount of time spent in the first component. You'd still go through the exact same set of scanners as everyone else, you'd just get to them quicker. Definitely no less secure.

The idea CNBC proposed is that with all the sequestration cuts the lines are going to get longer as a result. If you are willing to pay for these additional workers, they would be dedicated to just these screenings. There would be nothing lax about the checks they do but since they would have less people to process your wait would be (should be) shorter.

Those cuts are not the end of the world that politicians and one-sided cable "news" channels make them out to be.

No, it's not the end of the world, but this discussion does illustrate the frustration on the faces of those unwilling (or unable) to pay for upcharges that result in preferred service which dilutes the value given to the "standard admission" patrons as they watch those upgraders pass by while waiting in line.

In this day and age where lifestyle values are constantly being challenged by their "fairness", it all eventually comes down to money as being the ultimate deciding factor. But in this case, the discrimination is legal - because it's based on the ability or willingness to pay extra.

The standard admission ticket isn't increasing in price because of this structure, but it is decreasing in value. The number of available attractions over the years is certainly decreasing, and the wait times in the holding queues is increasing.

In the fourth post of this thread (page 1) I asked the question:

MaverickLaunch said:
What's the over/under before someone posts a response about how FL (and now, FLP) are unfair?

I guess we now have our answer. I'll admit, I thought it would be much sooner.

SteveH said:
The standard admission ticket isn't increasing in price because of this structure, but it is decreasing in value.

Even though the park just replaced an unpopular, 30 year old coaster with a state-of-the-art coaster?

Did the gate price increase this year? That usually accompanies a major ride install.

The number of available attractions over the years is certainly decreasing, and the wait times in the holding queues is increasing.

Nonsense, at least the assertion that attraction quantity is decreasing over the long term. Sure, they've taken out a few in recent years, but you're ignoring that the overall trend in ride quantity has been upward.

The facts show that the standard admission has lost value. You now get longer wait times when there are a lot of Fast Pass entries. Gone are Disaster Transport, Wildcat, Space Spiral, Demon Drop, Paddlewheel Boats, and Chaos. Without even close to the equal number of replacements.

Added are those "increasing quality" attractions you mentioned...

Windseeker (problems chainwide), Shoot The Rapids (with boats that were too long), Dragster (where do I start?), Maverick (heartline roll delay), VertiGo (hell, it fell down by itself).

My point is that although the standard admission hasn't increased, those who can't pony up for the additional fees are ending up in line longer - waiting for attractions that many times are closed or down for repairs with no compensation or recourse. Even Dinosaurs Alive comes at an additional charge and that "pay one price" slogan equates to "your mileage may vary" at the car dealership.

While it is true that no one is forcing you to visit, and many are finding the funds somewhere to cover the upcharge, those of us looking forward to something like Gatekeeper aren't going to be there early in the season until we see that it's reliable, and that we stand a chance of getting to ride it with all those that are paying to line jump.

SteveH said:
The facts show that the standard admission has lost value. You now get longer wait times when there are a lot of Fast Pass entries.

Can you point to the factual data that demonstrates this?

Windseeker (problems chainwide), Shoot The Rapids (with boats that were too long), Dragster (where do I start?), Maverick (heartline roll delay), VertiGo (hell, it fell down by itself).

Get a clipboard, and stand on the midway and take a survey of guests to find out what percentage of them are aware of the issues you mention. I'll go ahead and bet a month's salary that less than 5% know about any one of those issues, let alone all of them.

...attractions that many times are closed or down for repairs with no compensation or recourse.

Can you give me any downtime data, or is this just more opinion?

...that "pay one price" slogan...

Wait... CP's slogan is "pay one price"? Since when?

...those of us looking forward to something like Gatekeeper aren't going to be there early in the season until we see that it's reliable, and that we stand a chance of getting to ride it with all those that are paying to line jump.

Or how about this - don't go. Seriously, if you're that unhappy with the product (and your list, sensible or not, is lengthy enough to indicate that you are unhappy), vote with your wallet and stop going. If enough people are unhappy, as is your thesis, then it won't be long at all before CP management realizes the error of their ways and changes course.

Doesn't matter how fast or slow they get you through security at the airport, the flights are still unsafe and it's still easy to bring items aboard to cause harm to other passengers. Sky priority lines and TSA precheck are awesome, though. Global Entry is also great, waiting in lines at customs, much like for roller coasters, sucks.

SteveH said:
But in this case, the discrimination is legal - because it's based on the ability or willingness to pay extra.

Discrimination? Really? That's being dramatic. Do you make a sad face when you walk through first class on an airplane as well?

First class folks on a plane are only getting big seats in the front of the plane. They don't get 2 or more flights while I wait for my one flight.

The first class on a plane argument would be the equivalent of everyone waiting in the same line, but, if you choose to pay extra, you can have access to the front seat.

I guess now is a bad time to mention I'm upset because they could have a runway for my private jet instead of on site parking. People and their cars make me sick. Get out of my way! I'm trying to cut in line on that new coaster! ;)

But seriously, I've enjoyed FL and I'm sure I will do so again. I'm glad to have the option.

The facts show that the standard admission has lost value. You now get longer wait times when there are a lot of Fast Pass entries.

Please reveal your data from the extensive studies you have obviously completed.

You're either young and naive, ignorant, or just whining. I'm hoping for one, because it's mostly excusable.

Back in "the day", with no discriminatory, racist, sexist, vial Fast Pass system in place, I had to wait over an hour to ride Demon Drop, White Water Landing, and even....(drumroll)....Corkscrew. Yes, Corkscrew had lines that would extend far into the park. Don't even get me started on attractions like Mean Streak (over 3 hours), Magnum (easily over 3 hours)....which had horrendous waits, while all those other rides still had long lines...which far, far, far exceed anything that exists today.

Luckily, a group of us poor, disadvantaged, starving guests (think Les Miserables) picketed and demanded that Cedar Point build more rides to distribute crowds throughout the park. Our protest lasted throughout the winter months, and we paid a heavy price for our cause. That said, we were filled with justifiable rage like yourself. After all, who is more disadvantaged than an American who has access to a world-class park, only to be asked to take minutes...even hours off of their privileged existence to ride the rides that I paid my hard-earned middle class income for. Near death, with some of us lost to influenza, they finally caved, and agreed to begin construction on what would become one of the world's finest collection of rides on the planet.

However, we had to sign in blood a contract that allowed for a Fast Lane system to be involved sometime after the new Millennium, that way the upper-class citizens (ever drive down Cedar Point road? That's THEM!) could someday revisit the park without having to rub shoulders with us. Timmy resisted at first, but he had lost feeling in his extremities some time in February, so when we used his arm to sign the contract, he barely noticed. If memory serves me correctly, he lost consciousness anyway.

So I apologize. It's our fault. We got lots of rides, but now we all have to wait longer while the cream of the crop giggle with glee. We knew this day would come.

But don't give up the fight, Steve. That sense of entitlement you feel? Turn that into passion. Action. Demand more.

But don't pitch your tent on the east side of the parking lot; that's how we lost Jim and Barbara.

Kevinj said:

The facts show that the standard admission has lost value. You now get longer wait times when there are a lot of Fast Pass entries.

Please reveal your data from the extensive studies you have obviously completed.

You're either young and naive, ignorant, or just whining. I'm hoping for one, because it's mostly excusable.

There is no need to start attacking people and calling them names because they disagree with you. There is evidence that points towards him being right. Just because you don't like what he has to say doesn't mean you need to call him names. Actually think about what he is saying, over the past few years the number of attractions have decreased and the lines in theory have increased in wait time because of FL and the admission price has stayed the same hence the theory that the value of a single day ticket has decrease. Granted this is an arguable point but saying he is ignorant because he thinks this way is uncalled for

You are always free to not buy an admission ticket to Cedar Point. Seriously, this "diminished value of admission" argument is starting to get really tiring.

There is no need to start attacking people and calling them names because they disagree with you.

Tell that to Jim and Barbara.

Dead Sexeh said:

There is evidence that points towards him being right.

I think that's what people are asking for. Where is this evidence? It's been my experience that the wait times are affected very little. I'm not asking for this 'evidence' because the times I haven't used FL, the wait times are just about what they usually used to be. But this is my opinion based on what I've observed.

At a MF ride night last year, i jumped in line just before it closed to the public. The wait was just in front of the candy machines, about a 45 minute wait from previous waits. With no breakdowns, consistent trains being sent, FL tacked on an extra 35 minutes to the wait. I consider that pretty significant!