Top Thrill Dragster 2022 Status

Everyone is allowed to dream big with this of course, but just don't be pissed off and disappointed when it inevitably doesn't match those expectations.

Jeff's avatar

Tilt-a-Whirl:

avoids attacking someone else’s theory

You're confusing attacks with disagreement. If you aren't into debate, man, the Internet is not for you.

Tilt-a-Whirl:
Disney launched Rise of the Resistance as a statement to the industry and world

I think you misunderstand Disney. A lot. They certainly don't care about impressing the industry. Their guiding principle in attraction design (some Eisner-era stuff not withstanding) is storytelling. They don't use technology unless it serves that end, and they're not making statements with it.

Tilt-a-Whirl:
They will never deliver that dark ride we all hope for, they don’t have the team to maintain it- nor the capital to make it worth it.

Because pancakes? I mean, they didn't have the team to make anything other than ****ty food, and here we are. And if they spend $30 million on a roller coaster, they can't afford a dark ride? Legoland built a dark ride a few years ago, and they didn't need to spend that kind of money.

The reason people disagree with you is because your position is arbitrary and not based on anything grounded. You seem to think that decisions are made on precedent and allegiance to some marketing statement from 20 years ago.


Jeff - Advocate of Great Great Tunnels™ - Co-Publisher - PointBuzz - CoasterBuzz - Blog - Music

djDaemon's avatar

Tilt-a-Whirl:

If I’m seeing all of the above + a new layout for $30-40 million - I’m green lighting what would be the most epic coaster they’ve ever created.

Ignoring for a moment that VelociCoaster travels the second half at ~60MPH, meaning TTD with added track would need so many trim brakes, I would venture to guess that the theming is a nontrivial part of what makes VelociCoaster "epic." It doesn't seem like your budget accounts for any of that.

But again, I don't see what's so "epic" about coming down from a 420' hill into a long bank of trim brakes. It seems like if they wanted to make a VelociCoaster-type ride, it would be a better use of cap ex just build a VelociCoaster-type ride from the ground up, rather than graft it onto an existing, unsuitable structure.

And doing that wouldn't preclude them from also spending a few million on a new launch for TTD, which would probably efficiently squeeze out another 20+ years of ROI.


Brandon

Jeff:

Weight is the easy part. The challenge with support structures and the track is how you handle the dynamic forces of a moving thing. If forces place a certain horizontal load on a structure meant to handle a vertical load (arbitrary example), it's gonna eventually break. [...]

I'm by no means an engineer either, but I'd like to think I've got enough of a grasp of the basics to know that there's a disproportionate amount of engineering/structural failures that are primarily the result of only accounting for a static load and not the dynamic load/live load. Take your pick of bridge disasters, for one, and in a very basic sense the structure of a bridge is probably the closest analogue to a roller coaster structure in a way. You also have an awful lot of cases where part of the swiss cheese pileup was something being changed along the way, or something being retrofitted to the structure that wasn't accounted for in the original design. The Sampoong Dept Store collapse in Seoul is an extreme example of that sort of thing.

I guess all that was a very wordy way of saying, I can totally understand why one would be leery about retrofitting the tower that was specifically designed for a certain style of track and to take certain loads in certain conditions at certain places. But going back to what's been a recurring motif in this thread, while I'm sure the appropriate modeling could be done from an engineering POV to make it work, would it be worth the time and the expenditure? It's really hard to say until we see any further disassembly on the Dragster structure.

I don't know what it means to "fatigue" but Millennium Force has been running on its four-rail and three-rail track for 22 years, and I'm not aware of any sections that have been replaced. Even the four-rail is still fundamentally a bunch of triangles. (If you look closely, so is the B&M box spine... it's made up of triangular pieces.)

Yeah, the original topic I got that from was also pretty vague about what the OP meant by "fatigue", but yeah, structurally, the four-rail and three-rail track are basically subdivided Warren trusses ad infinitum.

This is more speculation and spitballing, but I also kind of wonder if part of the reason MF has been comparatively solid and reliable is out of the tendency for earlier models of most things to be a lot more overbuilt and redundant, because the manufacturer hasn't yet figured out what's unnecessary or where they can save money and such.

MF would've been the 5th or so Intamin coaster to have the box track (I thiiiiiink Volcano was the first but feel free to correct me otherwise) and I'm guessing it would've been designed concurrently with the three Supermen that all debuted more or less around the same time as MF (and which, as far as I know, have held up just as well as MF has).

Last edited by That Crazy Dan,
Jeff's avatar

That's a good comparison to bridges, given the big heavy things rolling over them. Certainly any of the RMC retrofits are case studies in using existing structures, and if I could generalize for a moment, most of them in most of their runs follow roughly the same layout. Where they do deviate, they require a fair amount of additional structure to accommodate those changes in load. Even on Steel Mean Vengeance Streak, the amount of additional structure to accommodate some of the sections with inversions, because of the change in load vector, are built-up quite a bit. And that's on a structure that's already dense in, uh, structure. The Dragster tower has none of that. What would you have to do to it to handle an outward radial turn halfway up?

You might be right about MF, especially looking at the giant B&M's, or even I-305 at Dominion when comparing support structures. But if Intamin had not "figured out" what was necessary, that's not super confidence inspiring.

Sidebar: Ever notice the track shimmy between the motor building and the tower caused by the wave of energy created presumably by the braking of the catch car? That never seemed right to me.


Jeff - Advocate of Great Great Tunnels™ - Co-Publisher - PointBuzz - CoasterBuzz - Blog - Music

heric's avatar

If we had to place bets - where is everyone leaning at the moment?

Put me in the LSM launch, new theme, no changes to layout camp.

Or what was the abbreviation back in 2002 on here? L TH TW B? :)

While I would love for additional elements to be added after the Top Hat, at a minimum an airtime hill but ideally a significant extension to the ride... I think the most likely outcome is solely a new launch system and cars, with a relocated queue.

Frog Hopper King's avatar

My current bet: New LSM Launch, new trains, new paint/theme/name. No layout change, maybe line rerouted.

Hope: Vertical Spike a la Pantheon to get the train up to speed.


Frog Hopper 2022

djDaemon's avatar

I would agree - LSM launch, revamped controls, new paint and new theme. Which isn't really minor if you think about it, considering it took, what, two years/seasons to repaint the tower?


Brandon

I know this was probably discussed early on, but haven't seen much mention of it since the "retiring" announcement, but I feel like even with changes to controls and launch systems (i.e. no more flag plates), that the queue still needs to be relocated. I won't say it has to be given the changes that may be made, but it just seems like the smart thing to do given the accident happened there.


Nick

Dvo's avatar

Rumors are that the currently fenced-off area will be the home of the new queue line. Which would be an improvement in itself, in my opinion. Obviously for the perceived safety reasons, but also just from the standpoint of being able to see how long the queue line is from the midway. And just to give my $0.02, I think I'm aligned to what the others have said. New launch mechanism, new trains, new name/theme. Some friends and I have talked about making something space-themed, and they could have that entire area (CFKATTD, Magnum, Gemini) themed to outer space.

Last edited by Dvo,

374 MF laps
Smoking Area Drone Pilot

e x i t english's avatar

I don't know who those friends are, but they sound smart, and definitely like cool people.

MrJohnJLewis's avatar

What would be the ideal color palette??


Been visiting yearly with my now wife to celebrate our anniversary since 2010. Proposed on top of Valravn in '17 during the Sunrise Thrills Tour. Proud owner of two bricks in the Legacy Walk and have a piece of Wicked Twister

djDaemon's avatar

Regolith gray, white, and SLS orange.


Brandon

Frog Hopper King's avatar

Dvo:

Some friends and I have talked about making something space-themed, and they could have that entire area (CFKATTD, Magnum, Gemini) themed to outer space.

DISASTER TRANSPORT 2.0


Frog Hopper 2022

And banishing "queue line" from the vocabulary of all

remaining humans.

You can vote at the nearest "ATM Machine" using your

"PIN Number".

That would be the most significant improvement from

what I am able to see here.

Last edited by DaveDzRochNY,

Dvo:

Rumors are that the currently fenced-off area will be the home of the new queue line. Which would be an improvement in itself, in my opinion.

What safety benefit does that yield? You moved guests from next to the 120 mph brake run to the 120 mph launch. Unless I misunderstand the specific section within the fenced area?

PyroKinesis09's avatar

A space theme would be so good. Can't wait for it to be generic name with generic theme #217 instead.

vwhoward's avatar

^^Rumors are just that...rumors. There is no basis for what he is saying. Full stop. It should've been worded as

Dvo:

Speculation is that the currently fenced-off area will be the home of the new queue...


Joe
Eat 'em up, Tigers, eat 'em up!

Dvo's avatar

^Many apologies. Sure, agreed. I guess I'd need to look at what area is fenced off again, but I believe it was the area adjacent to the station. Which, while it is close to the ride, it potentially wouldn't be along the majority of the length of the launch/return sections. But again... speculation. :)


374 MF laps
Smoking Area Drone Pilot

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