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Cedar Pointer:

The market has been moving away from wood coasters for years.

Again, the companies building wood coasters would be shocked to hear this.

Then why of the 96 new coasters being built next year is only one of them a wooden coaster? Seems like the overwhelming data disproves your anecdote. right?

cedarpoint2000:

The fact that Mystic Timbers consistently has one of the longest lines at KI says otherwise.

I finally made it back to Kings Island this year just in time for closing weekend. It was my first visit since Banshee opened, and really wanted to try Mystic Timbers. Arrived at the park for early entry on Saturday and was pleasantly surprised on my first ride, what a great coaster! I immediately got back in line a few more times for more laps before the queue filled up for the busy day.

If CP were to build a new wooden coaster, it should be similar to Mystic Timbers. Corkscrew could be next on the chopping block and the perfect location for a wooden coaster. I have a feeling Matterhorn and Scrambler are being relocated for one other reason in addition to being part of the new boardwalk area. Just my two cents.

Frog Hopper King:

why do all of the leading parks have a majority steal coasters?

You got me there. ;)

(I am verifiably the world's worst speller)

Circling back to the wood vs metal thing. I was being a little over critical. Racer and Beast have gone from filler rides to must rides. Forty plus year old woodies. When maintained and loved, they deserve all the praise.

in that respect I’d love to see Blue Steak get the full “Ghost Rider” treatment and a new custom creation from the The Gravity Group. I support y’alls wooden dreams.

oh don't get me wrong, Blue Streak is one of my favorites at CP, and the Beast might just be in my top 10 favorite coasters.

The biggest issue with Blue Streak is the incredibly tight squeeze getting in those trains. I never have (or see) the issues on other rides that have PTC orange bars and seat belts when compared with Blue Streak.

It also feels like the trains are just too heavy for the relatively slow/gentle course by the way it rides.

Frog Hopper King:

ok, I mean I thought half of this conversation was attempting to think not like an enthusiast but from the common person going to Cedar Point. From now on instead of using GP, ill use JS.

We are all common people going to CP, especially in the eyes of CP. There might be "enthusiast" events from time to time, but they still wouldn't do those if they didn't make them money in some form.

Cartwright:

The biggest issue with Blue Streak is the incredibly tight squeeze getting in those trains.

A lesser big issue is the proximity to the dumpsters. Ride it often enough on a hot summer day and you learn where to hold your breath. I think I rode Blue Streak more this fall season than all summer long though, mostly due to its (and Valravn nearby) walk on fast lanes.

Jeff:

Cedar Pointer:

The market has been moving away from wood coasters for years.

Again, the companies building wood coasters would be shocked to hear this.

A few select firms that specialize in a product is not indicative to the market as a whole. A product that is in the “decline” phase of the product life cycle can still produce a profit for some. Whoever, you will not see most coaster manufacturers start to build wooden coasters. I know people that built Shivering Timbers and they are currently building wooden decks now.

Cartwright:
The biggest issue with Blue Streak is the incredibly tight squeeze getting in those trains. I never have (or see) the issues on other rides that have PTC orange bars and seat belts when compared with Blue Streak.

My understanding is that when PTC started putting seat dividers into their trains, they made the trains a couple of inches wider. Presumably the Blue Streak is still running with its original trains, which did not have seat dividers until 1996. Add to that, the fixed end of the seat belt is a couple of inches shorter than the seat divider, making it hard to fasten and even harder to unfasten.
Actually getting in isn’t such a difficult thing; the trick is to pull the belt out fully, fasten it around you, THEN sit down. That’s right, fasten the seat belt BEFORE sitting down.

—Dave Althoff, Jr.

e x i t english:

We are all common people going to CP, especially in the eyes of CP. There might be "enthusiast" events from time to time, but they still wouldn't do those if they didn't make them money in some form.

You have a good point that for CP all people are considered "general public" or "common people". Cedar Point doesn't check for ACE cards at the entrance. However, in the van diagram of CP guests I think it's fair to say that there is general public (all those who attend), and within that group as a subset CP fans. And within that group, enthusiasts. Not every person who attends cedar point has an account here on Point Buzz, it can be inferred that if you are reading/posting here that you are not just the "general attendees" of the park. You're a fan. All three of those groups want and expect different things from the park.
When planning future expansion and additions cedar point looks to please the biggest group of those attendees, that being the "general public" not just the die-hard fans. (Sometimes what the GP and the fans want intersect, IE Steel Vengeance, sometimes they don't).

Ever since I have been a reader/poster on PB I have seen people make the distinction between the general public and super fans/enthusiasts. I don't understand why you are making a distinction against that now. It feels like you are just wanting to disagree.

Who cares if he dislikes the term? I certainly don't and it won't hinder my use of it.

Frog Hopper King:

It feels like you are just wanting to disagree.

That’s not true

"I know people that built Shivering Timbers and they are currently building wooden decks now."

People still build decks out of wood????

Cedar Pointer:

I know people that built Shivering Timbers and they are currently building wooden decks now.

And I know people that worked at, managed, landscaped, helped design, and cared for an amusement park in Aurora, Ohio. They are all working elsewhere now out of the industry. That doesn't mean there isn't demand for amusement parks.

Cedar Pointer:

A few select firms that specialize in a product is not indicative to the market as a whole. A product that is in the “decline” phase of the product life cycle can still produce a profit for some...

Wooden coasters being "in decline" is, quite simply, not supported by the data. Going back to ~1997, the average number of woodies built (per RCDB) is ~4/year. Between 2006 and 2019 (so, modern-ish wood coaster era to pre-pandemic, when coaster cap ex in general declined), the average is ~4/year.

Yes, woodies are a niche product, but they are not some "in decline" based on the data.

Frog Hopper King:

Then why of the 96 new coasters being built next year is only one of them a wooden coaster? Seems like the overwhelming data disproves your anecdote. right?

See above regarding "data."

Also, Ford prints money selling ~700,000 F-Series trucks every year, and still make money selling fewer than half that number of Escapes and a far lower per-vehicle margin. Or, put another way, most of the vehicles they sell are white, black, or silver, but they still produce cars in more exotic colors even though those are far less popular.

That something is a niche or less-popular product doesn't mean that product isn't important to the overall portfolio.

Data? Impossible! As a percentage wood coasters have never been dominant, and yet, they still build a few (I'm sorry, about 4 on average) every year.

Cedar Pointer:

I know people that built Shivering Timbers and they are currently building wooden decks now.

You may know carpenters who worked on the ride, cool, but I know the guys who designed it, and they're still quite employed, innovating and profitable.

I have no problem with anyone here saying that most of the people that they talk to don't like wooden coasters. All good there, but when you assume that means that it applies to the majority of park guests, well, your logic is just skewed. Not even skewed, but just flat out wrong. Even if you talked to thousands of people, that sample is still to small to make the generalization that most park guests don't like woodies.

And now my 2 cents. I prefer to steel to wood. Am I in the majority or the minority? Who knows, and who cares. Is my life negatively affected if CP builds a wooden coaster in the future? Nope, not at all.