My money is still on Intamin.
But that's the thing - it's not your money. It's Cedar Fair's, and they've spent a lot of money on Intamin failures, most recently the StR catastrophe. There are other companies wholly qualified to design a new launch mechanism for an existing structure.
They didn't need to move Matterhorn and Scrambler and my guess is that it wasn't the intention to move them when they were planning The Boardwalk. A lot of of people questioned the necessity of putting Scrambler and Calypso in the same area (because one is obviously a tilted version of the other).
This would make a little more sense if they moved Super Himalaya instead of Matterhorn, considering Matterhorn and Scrambler are nowhere near TTD. Heck, Scrambler is as close, if not closer, to Windseeker than to TTD.
As for grouping "similar" rides together, two things:
One, I don't think your average park guest looks at Scrambler and Calypso and sees the same ride, with the only difference being that one is tilted on its side. They see two spinning rides that either look like fun or not, and accordingly they ride one, both, or neither.
And two, when you have a low capacity ride, it makes sense to group it with other low capacity rides. That way you end up with an area with a decent combined capacity. The Gemini Midway is a good example, with Monster, Lake Erie Eagles, and Pipe Scream.
Unless I am missing other more recent successful installs (which I very well may be missing it), I feel like Intamin will be Intamin: innovative and not afraid to push limits. However, still unreliable products as far as I know
Their recent builds are Pantheon, Hyperion, Red Force, and the Movie Park Studio Tour. All have gotten great press, and seem to work well. And Jeff you actually proved my point. Velocicoasters' mechanical system works well because they have honed in fixing mistakes. If they are redoing the launch then that's exactly what they are updating. Personally, I think it's a little silly just to assume because CP/CF hasn't been working with them in the past automatically means that they would refuse from using them now. Especially because it seems like they are making high-quality products as of late that are more reliable. but I could be wrong, I'm just guessing.
Frog Hopper 2022
But that's the thing - it's not your money. It's Cedar Fair's
Of course it is. I thought this was a corner of the internet where we all discuss what we think will happen. What do you think is happening DJ? You and the webmaster seem to be so sure of everything that’s not happening- tell us what you think IS happening. It’s called speculation, and it’s what’s made sites like this successful over the years.
But it’s more enjoyable when people theorize what WILL happen vs just sitting back and poking holes in what everyone else is speculating. That’s not very fun.
Making uninformed guesses isn't a prerequisite for pointing out flaws in other people's uninformed guesses. And it's not as though I chime in and swat away every bit of speculation, just the really bad predictions.
And sorry, but the idea that CF is going to invest tens of millions of dollars by adding thousands of feet of track to a 420' tall 20+ year old ride structure is a really bad take. I'm not saying CF working with IntaRide is totally out of the question, but to suggest it would be because Universal likes the brand new ride from Intamin has, so far, been a success, is a bad take.
One difference between a good and bad prediction is that bad ones tend to work from the desired outcome and reverse engineer the evidence in support of the desired outcome. You seem to be a big fan of Intamin's rides, which is fine - I am too! - but have little to no concern with the business end of owning & operating their products. As such, your desired outcome is Intamin being involved - all else be damned - and you work backwards from there highlighting or omitting evidence to best fit your desired outcome.
In my opinion, blind, fantastical speculation isn't fun. Informed speculation is fun.
Frog Hopper King:
And Jeff you actually proved my point.
No, I've only pointed out that your Intamin fandom varies from you arguing that they push boundaries and are innovative to successful for using proven stuff. So which is it? Are the injuries and deaths any less real?
I don't see how it couldn't be Intamin.
No company in their right mind would take on the liability of modifying a ride they didn't originally design that's already caused serious injury to a person and was more or less flawed from the get go.
If, as is speculated, the launch, controls systems, and trains were replaced, the only OEM stuff left would be the ride structure itself, which to my knowledge has no inherent flaws. So I fail to see how this would be an issue.
A part of the ride bolted to the structure literally failed and almost killed a woman... but yeah, no inherent flaws.
A part of the ride bolted to the train came into contact with the ride's brake system, and that train component almost killed a woman. New trains would presumably not use the same flag plate nor would they likely use the same braking system.
This is an example of someone having a desired outcome - Intamin being involved - and highlighting or omitting evidence to better reach the desired outcome.
I’m curious as I haven’t a clue.. say an amusement park installs a ride from Imtamin. When the park need replacement parts such as wheels, bearings, brakes, launches, etc. would the park source them straight from Intamin or is there a “J.C. Whitney” catalog to order generic/off the shelf?
Hi all. Long time lurker here, but the uncertainty surrounding the future of Top Thrill Dragster has certainly piqued my interest.
Before, it was mentioned that Wicked Twister’s LIM system required a direct power line from the main land. Does anyone recall if a similar line was routed for the LSM launches on Maverick? Perhaps if such a line exists to supply power for Maverick, they could tie into it for a potential LSM launch for TTD? I’m certainly no electrical engineer, but it’s just a thought.
P.S. I’ve enjoyed reading through the evolution of this thread and the many before it. I am thankful a platform like this still exists in the age of social media.
Life is like a roller coaster. It has its ups and downs, but it’s your choice to scream or enjoy the ride.
That line was run to feed Wicked Twister and Dragster.
A major number of components in modern amusement rides are outsourced to specialty manufacturers. That's how Gerstlauer got into the business, among others. Unless there is a do not compete clause in their agreements, yes you can buy those components directly from the source.
And it's not as though I chime in and swat away every bit of speculation, just the really bad predictions.
Ok- so Cedar Point announces that Top Thrill Dragster is being retired (as we know it). They say the innovative, creative team is “reimagining” a “new ride experience”.
And you think that me predicting Intamin changing the layout of the ride is a bad prediction.
What part am I missing?
You're not missing anything.
You're simply not agreeing with the right person/people.
No, I've only pointed out that your Intamin fandom varies from you arguing that they push boundaries and are innovative to successful for using proven stuff. So which is it? Are the injuries and deaths any less real
I really feel like you didn't engage with my argument at all. Intamin has greatly improved the nuts and bolts of how their rides operate. They have a better track record right now. I'm not sure they are known as the people who are just "Pushing boundaries". I really don't consider myself an Intamin fan more than any other coasters. I am positing that Cedar Point MIGHT work with the original developer to flip the ride, especially because they seem to have improved their track record with their newer attractions. If they are being contracted to flip out to LSM's and redo some of the nuts and bolts that make the ride work I feel like they would be perfect to work with. (Especially with seeing how Red Force has such a great LSM launch.)
At the end of the day, I think it COULD be Intamin, but it could likely be a different developer.
Frog Hopper 2022
They say the innovative, creative team is “reimagining” a “new ride experience”.
This is precisely what I mean when I say that some people will highlight or omit evidence/data/etc. in order to reach their desired outcome. You're taking meaningless marketing terms and extrapolating that out to tens of millions of dollars of investment into a 20+ year old ride structure, not because this is the most likely outcome based on evidence and data, but because that's what you would do if you were CEO (or playing RCT).
Here's the relevant part of the park's statement:
However, Cedar Point’s legacy of ride innovation continues. Our team is hard at work, creating a new and reimagined ride experience.
All they've said is that whatever is happening will be "new and reimagined," which could mean literally anything. They could change nothing other than the theme/name of the ride and that would qualify as "new and reimagined," and it wouldn't cost $40 million.
Frog Hopper King:
Intamin has greatly improved the nuts and bolts of how their rides operate.
It was only six years ago that StR closed after being in operation for less than 5 seasons.
Frog Hopper King:
I really feel like you didn't engage with my argument at all. Intamin has greatly improved the nuts and bolts of how their rides operate. They have a better track record right now.
Your argument, to me, is not relevant. McDonald's might make better "food" today, but I'm still not going to eat it because the experience sucks and I don't like the way they treat their employees. If you think that mechanical track record is the only thing that matters when working with that company, I assume you haven't heard from people who hate working with them. I can't tell you how many bridges they've burned.
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