Top Thrill Dragster 2022 Status

Objective and realistic.

How is it not realistic for the park who is known worldwide to build the tallest, fastest, groundbreaking roller coasters to remove everything but the 420’ tower and spend $40 million on an “innovative, reimagined, new ride experience” for 2024?

Now- will we get 4,000 feet of track following the top hat? That’s probably me dreaming a little- but this discussion should absolutely turn to what this “innovation” is rather than trying to argue that a $40 million refurb of the 2nd tallest roller coaster in the world is not a wise way for the roller coaster capital of the world to invest capital.

At this point, anything goes as far as it being "reimagined". They could remove the ride entirely and fill the station with VR drag racing simulators, or use the tower as a support for a Gemini Midway Sky Ride, and it would all be under "retired as you know it"

Tilt-a-Whirl:

How is it not realistic for the park who is known worldwide to build the tallest, fastest, groundbreaking roller coasters to remove everything but the 420’ tower and spend $40 million on an “innovative, reimagined, new ride experience” for 2024?

Because that does not remotely resemble their cap ex strategy over the last ~10 years, and instead looks like their cap ex strategy during the 90's/00's when they company was run by an entirely different group of people who only knew how to build roller coasters and serve crappy, overpriced food.

Could they do what you're proposing? Sure, anything is possible, I suppose. But the certainty under which you are operating is totally untethered to reality.

I think we either get a "simple" conversion of TTD to a LSM launch system with a re-theming or it's going to be something radically different likely in the form of an all or mostly new ride.

The ride is almost 20 years old, the track isn't smooth as it used to be, things are wearing and tearing, etc. It just doesn't make sense to me that they would do something in the middle of those two options.

For the sake of my comment we'll say an LSM conversion runs $5M and something radically different that's all new runs $40M. I just don't see a place for a $15M-$20M update that utilizes the majority of the existing track, has some modifications to the existing layout, and converts the ride to LSM. In my eyes, either you bandage it up for $5M or go all the way for $40M and also rework the midway around the new ride.

Maybe I'm way off the mark, but time will tell.

Tilt-a-Whirl:

read John H’s book

I mean, if we're giving our resumes, I'm in John's book.

As Brandon pointed out, attendance was the only thing that mattered in the Kinzel era. Dick liked attaching superlatives to rides, but at the end of the day, all he worried about was the ability to draw people in. If superlatives mattered, they works have beat the 1994 attendance record by now.

When Ouimet took over, his messaging to the press and investors was consistent. Reinforce the resort and bring it up to a higher standard, and plant the seed for future generations by emphasizing family. The coasters built since then are not particularly exotic or innovative, and two of them are conversions.

Whatever your insistence is that they've gotta do the ultimate thing is, it isn't rooted in the reality of the business. It's just about your feelings and nostalgia.

Untethered to reality. Feelings of nostalgia?

I live in Orlando. The theme park capital of the world. The 90’s and 00’s has nothing to do with this. It’s business. A theme park must continue to invest in marketable attractions to continue to turn a profit. See Guardians of the Galaxy. Velocicoaster. Orion. Ice Breaker. Iron Gwazi. Tron. Steel Vengeance. Pantheon.

Sure- the park has spent smart capital over the last ten years improving park infrastructure that was neglected during Kinzel. But the restaurants, the new Breakers, all of it is to support the real reason people go to Cedar Point- roller coasters.

What world are we living in where a theme park refurbing their marquee attraction to bring it up to 2022 standards is “untethered to reality”?

Ask any leadership team what the biggest challenge in their industry is. It’s staying relevant, ahead of the curve, to keep a competitive edge. It’s getting harder and harder to get people off their phones and into a theme park. The concept I’m proposing will do just that.

Obviously the park agrees- otherwise the cranes would be in Sandusky removing the ride, like most of you were so certain was going to happen.

I can attest to the fact very few people from GP know what actually happened at Dragster last August. You should hear what people tell me when they try to sound smart about it...if you didn't know any better, you'd think Dragster up & grew legs, grabbed a weapon, and hit the lady itself.

With that being said, the name and colors is what has to go to correct this PR blemish. It's a win-win for them, as shown by Rougarou & SV -- you get the marketability of a new ride without all the initial capital cost.

Nobody in their right mind would flip the lights back on with the existing hydraulic launch. I personally love the concept of observers being able to witness the launch only feet away from the action...there is nothing like watching the pure fear in riders eyes sitting there innocently waiting to blast off. It is what (in my eyes) made TTD special. With an LSM system and new trains, I think they could maintain the current midway interaction without sacrificing safety.

I'll go out on a limb and say they might not even need to reconfigure the queue with an updating brake system that doesn't shear bolts off every other day.

Sandusky is not Orlando. The parks here operate on a different level (I worked for one of those, too). The reality is that Cedar Point could tear down Dragster, do nothing with it, and it wouldn't matter. Cedar Point would move on, and nothing would change.

Jeff:

I mean, if we're giving our resumes, I'm in John's book.

Me too. :)

Tilt-a-Whirl:

What world are we living in where a theme park refurbing their marquee attraction to bring it up to 2022 standards is “untethered to reality”?

In what world would what you're describing be considered a "refurb?"

So, I know the current argument is over what will happen to the physical ride, but I'm curious about the direction they could go with theming.

As far as I'm aware, Cedar Fair still holds two trademark names (and probably more that I can't find) that haven't been used yet: Centurion and Polaris.

Either name would fit perfectly, but I think a space theme with the name "Polaris" (the north star) would fit incredibly well, especially with Millennium, Magnum, and Gemini all being vaguely sci-fi/space "themed" already.

I think themes and names are basically out of bounds. They could literally do anything.

I will use myself as an anecdotal test case. My kids are about grown and less interested so the annual family trip to CP (multi-day, staying at Breakers) stopped as of this past summer.

1. If CP tears down Dragster and only adds the new beach section with wild mouse ride that won't get us back to CP. (0% chance). I still think this is a good addition for park though.
2. If CP adds LSM and repaints Dragster, that won't move the needle a whole lot more in getting us back right away even though it was our families favorite ride. (~20% chance)
3. If CP does something big (by 2024) in addition to the LSM like adding more track and elements after the tophat, lighting, music, enclosure, theming; we are going back. (95% chance) This model I'm envisioning is not just another superlative but a thrilling and very unique new ride.

And I know this is anecdotal but I would guess my family may be fairly typical so multiply us by, say, 30,000 other families (wild guess). That does make a difference to attendance and park revenue no doubt. So maybe it is a pipe dream but why not go big and stay extremely relevant? They will get their money back in time.

The simple fact that you are posting here means you are not a typical park customer.

Cedar Fair announces record revenue for the year, with Dragster closed, and y'all are trying to explain why it's so important to have it or something equally grand. 😀

Construction walls are now up.
(photo via. /r/rollercoasters subreddit, @citkendall05 on Twitter)

But that's the point, they didn't get their money back with TTD, it's probably the biggest money pit that the park has ever owned. In fact there were warning signs, problems with the prototype "Xcellerator" Knott's that probably were an indicator that making a larger version was a bad idea. The coaster wars were winding down at that time, and there were higher ups that were trying to emphasize that they should be looking at developing the whole resort concept, and not dumping all their money into iron. As we know now that was largely ignored until after the change of leadership, but not until some lost their jobs.

Seems unwise to post a picture from the tractor your boss knows you're riding.

Jeff thats a straw man. I don't think anyone here is trying to argue that needs to have it or that it is 100% necessary. If Cedar Fair thinks they can make greater revenue without TTD(its replacement) they would just get rid of it. Clearly they think that whatever investment they are putting into the coaster will be better than removing it.

When I read their announcement at it says "However, Cedar Point's legacy of ride innovation continues." that makes me think of Cedar Point's legacy of breaking records. Cedar Point has a lot of power in the roller coaster industry. Word is they are the ones that got RMC to redesign their coaster trains. I could see them making this their big investment for 2024 and adding to the layout. I could also see them just Updating the launch to LSM or air compressor.

I wonder how much it costs them to set up that fence with the fancy paint. The little things.